will in time wholly destroy it. It will constantly experience the same danger of destruction as Damocles, with the sword of the tyrant Dionysius suspended by a single hair over his head. I call upon every member present to protect that constitution obtained by the blood of their ancestors. If one letter of these resolutions are suffered to pass, the whole will be gone into. I think it my duty therefore to call upon the country gentlemen in particular to exert themselves upon the present momentous occasion. I request of them" to rise, or be for ever fallen!" The House having resolved itself into the committee, Mr. Pitt rose, and said:-Sir; the sentiments of this and the other House have been so clearly and decisively expressed in the vote which was given on this important subject during the last session of parliament, that I feel it altogether unnecessary to renew the arguments then advanced and acceded to with respect to the advantage, expedience, and necessity of the measure. Recollecting, that the grounds then offered for the union of both kingdoms were so solid and unalter able as to meet with an almost universal concurrence; and also recollecting that the subsequent discussions which have taken place in the parliament of the sister kingdom, must have confirmed and riveted the decision so unequivocally manifested in this country, I shall only trouble the committee so far as to recall the magnitude of the question which is now submitted to their consideration, and to remind them, that it is not one partial consideration, not a single provision, however great it might be, which claims their attention, but a consideration in which the dearest and most essential interests of both countries are most intimately connected. If we wish to accomplish the great work that we have undertaken, we must look to the whole of this important and complicated question; we must look at it in a large and comprehensive point of view; we must consider it as a measure of great national policy, the object of which is effectually to counteract the restless machinations of an inveterate enemy, who has uniformly and anxiously endeavoured to effect a separation be tween two countries, whose connexion is as necessary for the safety of the one, as it is for the prosperity of the other. We must look to this as the only measure we can adopt which can calm the dissentions, allay the animosities, and dissipate the jealousies which have unfortunately existed; as a measure whose object is, to communicate to the sister kingdom the skill, the capital, and the industry, which have raised this country to such a pitch of opulence; to give to her a full participation of the commerce and of the constitution of England; to unite the affections and resources of two powerful nations, and to place under one public will the direction of the whole force of the empire. We must consider this as a measure, Sir, the object of which is, to afford an effectual remedy for those imperfections which exist in that precarious system that at present binds the two countries together; a system which, if an incorporate union should unfortunately not take place, may ultimately tend to their separation. Sir, when these are the objects which are to be obtained by this measure, the committee will not, I am sure, consider it as a measure of partial or local convenience, or of partial or local sacrifice; but in forming their opinions they will consider its general effect upon the whole of the aggregate of the empire. In deciding on this question, we ought to be actuated by another feeling, a feeling which it is not necessary for me to state, because the magnanimity of every gentleman must have suggested it to his own mind. In the union of a great nation with a less, we must feel that we ought not to be influenced by any selfish policy, that we ought not to be actuated by any narrow views of partial advantage. refute by our conduct (what indeed we might have hoped our terms had already refuted, if what fell from an hon. gentleman this day did not unfortunately prove that a degree of unaccountable prejudice still existed) the idea that we have any other object in view than that of promoting the mutual advantage of both kingdoms. We must show that we are not grasping at financial advantages, that we are not looking for commercial monopoly; we must show that we wish to make the empire more powerful and more secure, by making Ireland more free and more happy. These, Sir, are the views-these are the only views with which I could ever have proposed this measure; and it is with these views alone that it can be rendered effectual to its object, and establish mutual harmony and confidence between the two nations. But it is not merely a sentiment of generosity and magnanimity which influences her conduct; in thus striking a balance between two nations, justice requires that the greater share of advantage should fall to the less powerful one. Fortunately such has been the rapid progress which this country has made in commerce and in capital, that it has arrived at a degree of prosperity unexampled in the history of the world; that it is in a situation in which perhaps no other country ever was, either to treat with a friend, or to contend with an enemy: such are the rapid and unprecedented advantages which we are making in commercial prosperity, that, admitting that the adoption of this measure might be attended with particular in-nue; and, finally, the provisions relative convenience and local disadvantage, the wealth which the country will acquire, even while this discussion is going on, would much more than compensate for such particular loss. It is not necessary for me to detain the committee by dilating any more upon this part of the subject; I flatter myself that every gentleman who bears me, concurs with me in every sentiment which I have advanced. If, with feelings such as these, we proceed to the examination of these articles, with an intention of not overlooking any part of them, of examining them with a view to see whether they may require any alteration, but at the same time with a firm determination not to suffer small difficulties to stand in the way of important national arrangements and advantages; if, Sir, I say, we are actuated by these feelings, I hope the century will not conclude without the accomplishing of this great national work, which will give a full participation of our wealth and happiness to millions of our fellow-subjects which will place upon a firm basis the connexion between the two countries, and will augment and secure the strength and prosperity of the empire. united kingdoms, upon which I apprehend no difference of opinion can subsist. The second article relates to the succession of the Crown, and which is precisely the same as that which was agreed to by the parliament of Great Britain. In the third article is the beginning of the detail, which must necessarily take place in treaties of this sort between independent nations. It divides itself into five leading branches, viz. the regulations with respect to the imperial legislature; the provisions for the security of the established Church; the regulation of the commercial intercourse between the two countries; the arrangement of their respective proportions with respect to reve I will not trouble the committee with any further observations of a general nature; I will now take a view of the resolutions which have been laid before us, and which have been agreed to by the parliament of Ireland. It will be necessary for us to see how far they accord with those which were agreed to last sessions in the British parliament; and how far that which they have altered, or added, is objectionable. In looking at them with this view, it will be seen that the first article merely relates to the name of the to courts of justice. In examining and Upon a full consideration of the subject, the parliament of Ireland are of opinion, that the number of representatives for Ireland in the House of Commons ought to be one hundred. Upon this subject, the first question to which I have to call the attention of gentlemen (supposing that they adhere to the resolutions of last session) is, whether the number so men tioned by the parliament of Ireland is so reasonable, and founded in such fair proportions, that we ought to agree to it? For my own part, Sir, I will fairly confess, that upon this part of the subject it does appear to me extremely difficult to find any precise ground upon which to form a correct calculation, or to entertain a posi tive preference for any one specific num ber of members rather than another: but I am the less anxious about it, because I do not consider the consequences as very important. In my view of representation, founded upon the experience of our constitution, I think we are entitled to say, that, if a nation becomes united with us in interests and in affection, it is a matter of but small importance whether the number of representatives from one part of the united empire be greater or less. If there are enough to make known the local wants, to state the interests, and convey the sentiments of the part of the empire they represent, it will produce that degree of general security, which will be wanting in any vain attempt to obtain that degree of theoretical perfection, about which in modern times we have heard so much. Considering it in this point of view (if the interests of the two countries are identified, and the number of representatives are adequate to the purposes I have mentioned), I really think the precise number is not a matter of great importance. At the same time, when it is necessary that the number should be fixed, it is necessary to have recourse to some principle to guide our determination; and I am not aware of any one that can more properly be adopted, than that which was laid down in the discussions upon this part of the subject in the parliament of Ireland; I mean a reference to the supposed population of the two countries, and to the proposed rate of contribution. I do not think that the proportion of the population, or the capability of contribution, taken separately, would either of them form so good a criterion as when taken together; but even when combined, I do not mean to say that they are perfectly accurate. Taking this principle, it will appear that the proportion of contribution proposed to be established, is seven and a half for Great Britain, and one for Ireland; and that, in the proportion of population, Great Britain is to Ireland as two and a half, or three to one: so that the result, upon a combination of these two, will be something more than five to one in favour of Great Britain, which is about the proportion that it is proposed to establish between the representatives of the two countries. With respect to the mode in which these members are to be selected in order to be sent over to the imperial parliament, it is such as in my opinion must prevent the possibility of any suspicion arising in the minds of gentlemen. It is obvious that no wish was entertained by those by whom these articles were proposed, to introduce an additional number of members, with any view to an augmentation of the influence of the crown. If it is admitted that it would be highly inconvenient to add the whole of the House of Commons of Ireland, which consists of three hundred members, to that of Great Britain, it is obvious that some principle of selection must be resorted to; and I cannot conceive any one that could have been adopted more equitable or satisfactory for Ireland, or less liable to objection. The plan proposed is, that the members of the counties, and of the principal commercial cities, should remain entire. With respect to the remaining members to make up the number of a hundred, without thinking of abstract principles, without talking about the difference between one description of boroughs and another, being obliged to make a selection, the plainest and most obvious mode is resorted to, with a view to the obtaining of local information, and to the security of the landed interest. The remaining members are to be selected from those places which are the most considerable in point of population and wealth. Those gentlemen who have objected to the introduction of theoretical reforms in the constitution, and in the representation of this country, will find that there is nothing in this plan which has a tendency towards that object, or which makes a distinction between different parliamentary rights. The plan which it is proposed to adopt, is the only one that could have been recurred to, without trenching upon the constitution. The committee must perceive, that, in acquiescing in this regulation, they will consent to an addition to the existing House of Commons, without making any, the slightest, alteration in our internal forms; that this regulation is conformable to the resolution which last year met with the approbation of the parliament of Great Britain; and that no alteration is proposed in the numbers of the British House of Commons. It would not, perhaps, be necessary for me to say any thing more upon this topic; yet knowing, Sir, how strong some opinions are on the subject, and knowing the share I formerly had myself in sentiments of that nature, I must declare that I do not wish to avoid the discussion. I rather desire to disclose my most secret thoughts upon the question of reform, as I do not think myself authorised, from a firm conviction of their purity and justice, to decline any investigation upon that would it be wise and consistent to connect the question of union with the question of reform? If the union be of itself a measure of great difficulty, as it is generally admitted, I appeal to the candour of every man, would it be prudent, would it be safe, to involve it in a question of the greatest perplexity, of the most embarrassing nature, and attended with fatal consequences as to our internal interest? On the ground then of prudence, what have said must I think alone be sufficient: but as I do not wish to have the least reserve with the House, I must say, that if any thing could throw a doubt upon the question of union-if any thing could in my mind counterbalance the advantages that must result from it, it would be the necessity of disturbing the representation of England: but that necessity fortunately does not exist. In stating this, Sir, I have not forgotten what I have myself formerly. said and sincerely felt upon this subject; but I know that all opinions must necessarily be subservient to times and circumstances; and that man who talks of his consistency merely because he holds the same opinion for ten or fifteen years, when the circumstances under which that opinion was originally formed are totally changed, is a slave to the most idle vanity. Seeing all that I have seen since the period to which I allude; considering how little chance there is of that species of reform to which alone I looked, and which is as different from the modern schemes of reform, as the latter are from the constitution; seeing that where the greatest changes have taken place, the most dreadful consequences have ensued, and which have not been confined to that country where the change took place, but have spread their malignant influence almost in every quarter of the globe, and shaken the fabric of every government; seeing that in this general shock the constitution of Great Britain has alone remained pure and untouched in its vital principles-[A cry of" Hear! hear!" on the opposition side]-I wish gentlemen would hear me, and then answer me when I see that it has resisted all the efforts of Jacobinism, sheltering itself under the pretence of a love of liberty; when I see that it has supported itself against the open attacks of its enemies, and against more dangerous reforms of its professed friends; that it has defeated the unwearied machinations of France, and the no less persevering efforts of Jacobins in England, and that during the whole of the contest it has uniformly maintained the confidence of the people of England;-I say, Sir, when I consider all these circumstances, I should be ashamed of myself, if any former opinions of mine could now induce me to think that the form of representation which, in such times as the present, has been found amply sufficient for the purpose of protecting the interests and securing the happiness of the people, should be idly and wantonly disturbed from any love of experiment, or any predilection for theory. Upon this subject, Sir, I think it right to state the inmost thoughts of my mind; I think it right to declare my most decided opinion, that, even if the times were proper for experiments, any, even the slightest change in such a constitution must be considered as an evil. I have been led farther into this subject, from the temporary interruption which I met with, than I intended; but I did not mean to have passed by the subject of the Irish members, without accompanying it with some observations on British repre sentation. I have next to state, that however these members may be chosen, there is one consideration which cannot fail to press itself upon our minds; I mean, that by the laws of England care has been taken to prevent the influence of the crown from becoming too great, by too many offices being held by members of parliament. In Ireland there are laws of a similar nature, but not quite to the same extent; so that it might happen that in the hundred members to be chosen, there may be a great number holding places. It will occur to gentlemen that some provision ought to be made upon this subject. I feel this sentiment as strongly as any man; but gentlemen must be aware that it is impossible to provide against it by an article of union, to be binding upon the united parliament, because we have found from experience, that the number of offices to be held by members must always remain in the discretion of parliament, to be regulated from time to time as circumstances may require. On the other hand, if no regulation upon this subject is at present made, it may happen that in the first hundred members chosen there may be a great number holding places, and consequently under the influence of the crown, who will have to decide in the imperial parliament, upon the extent to which that influence ought t extend. The committee will recollect that the greater number of the member that are to come over, will be the repre sentatives of counties and the great com mercial towns. Of these I believe ther are not above five or six who hold offices With respect to the remainder, it must b obvious, from the manner in which the are to be chosen, that it is impossible to ascertain exactly the number of office they may hold; they cannot, however exceed the number of twenty. Unless therefore, the numbers of those holding places were so great as to excite rea jealousy, it would not be necessary to de prive them of their places in the first in stance, as their numbers would not b sufficient to have any great effect in de ciding upon the question of the extent o the influence of the crown. I understan that a motion was made by a gentlema last week for an estimate upon this sub ject; but he must be aware that such a estimate could not be made up in thi country, nor even in Ireland, withou great difficulty. I think nothing can b more fair than what I shall propose, viz that no more than twenty of the person so coming over shall hold places; and if it shall happen that a greater numbe of them than twenty hold places during pleasure, then these who have last ac cepted them shall vacate their seats; thi will, upon the whole, I think, obviat every objection that can be made in poin of principle. We then proceed to the number of th other House of parliament; and thei precise number, I own, does not appear t me a matter that calls for close investiga tion or minute inquiry. The number fo Scotland, as we all know, is sixteen to re present the peerage, and for the Common forty-five. There may, indeed, be anothe view of considering it on the part of Ire land, different from that of Scotland which is true to a given extent, and o which I shall observe hereafter; but i the view in which I take it at present, and thinking as I do, that the whole should be a representation having for its objec the general welfare of the empire, the number cannot be very material; besides we are to look at Ireland as represented locally by thirty peers, and also by thos peers in England who possess great par of their property in Ireland; so that in comparison of the thirty-two Irish peers there may be said to be no less than one |