N. L. Here too I cannot withhold my approbation. This is my experience exactly.

L. S. And it is mine too, in the substance of it. But let us not interrupt. I wish to hear a full account of brother Feelwell's doctrine of perfection.

Th. Were I disposed to argue upon the points now stated, I should endeavor to show, that your statements are all wrong; that your notion of a direct witness of the Spirit is a delusion; and that believing that your sins are forgiven before you love God, is believing a lie; that justifying faith is not a belief that your sins are forgiven, but a cordial acquiescence in the Gospel method of salvation; and that all the love which springs merely from God's supposed love to you, is selfish and wicked. But it is my present wish to obtain your views on the subject of perfection. Having cast away the moral law as the rule of right, and substituted a new law requiring less, you suppose, of course, that some live up to all that is required by that law, do you not?

F. W. No. My author says again, "Christian perfection is pure love, filling the heart and governing all the words and actions." But, "A man may be filled with pure love, and still be liable to mistake. A mistake in opinion may occasion a mistake in practice. Every such mistake is a transgression of the perfect law. Therefore, every such mistake, were it not for the blood of the atonement, would expose to eternal damnation. The best of men still need Christ in his priestly office, to atone for their omissions, their short comings, their mistakes in judgment and practice, and their defects of various kinds. For these are all deviations from the perfect law, and consequently need an atonement. Yet that they are not properly sins, we apprehend may appear from the words of St. Paul; 'He that loveth another hath fulfilled the law; for love is the fulfilling of the law.' Now, mistakes, and whatever infirmities necessarily flow from the corruptible state of the body, are no way contrary to love, nor therefore in the Scripture sense sin. Not only sin properly so called, that is, a voluntary transgression of a known law, but sin improperly so called, that is, an involuntary transgression of a divine law, known or unknown, needs the atoning blood. I believe there is no such perfection in this life as excludes these involuntary transgressions;" but "such transgressions," I do not call "sins." "These souls dwell in a shattered body, and are so pressed down thereby, that they cannot always exert themselves as they would, by thinking, speaking, and acting precisely right. For want of better bodily organs, they must, at times, think, speak, or act wrong; not indeed through a defect of love, but

through a defect of knowledge. And while this is the case, notwithstanding that defect, and its consequences, they fulfil the law of love."

Th. I am not able to see why your statement is not selfcontradictory. You say, "they fulfil the law of love," and yet speak of such "omissions, short comings, defects of various kinds, deviations from the perfect law, and even transgressions of it," as "need the atoning blood," and without it, "would expose to eternal damnation."

F. W. It is the statement of a man wiser than you or I; and whatever you may think of it, I am resolved to believe it is entirely right, and perfectly consistent. And I know many, who, as my author says, "are saved in this world from all sin, from all unrighteousness; they are now in such a sense perfect as not to commit sin, and to be freed from all evil desires and evil tempers. At all times their souls are even and calm; their hearts are steadfast and immovable. Their peace, flowing as a river, passeth all understanding. They rejoice evermore, pray without ceasing, and in every thing give thanks. Their souls are continually streaming up to God, in holy joy, prayer, and praise. This is a point of fact. And this is plain, sound, scriptural experience."

Th. Do you suppose that all Christians, all who are justified by faith, have attained this perfection?

F. W. No. I suppose that when a man attains it, he experiences, as my author says, another "change, immensely greater than that wrought when he was justified; when, after having been fully convinced of inbred sin, by a far deeper and clearer conviction than that which he experienced before justification, and after having experienced a gradual mortification of it, he experiences a total death to sin, and an entire renewal in the love and image of God."

Th. It is now evident how widely your doctrine of perfec tion differs from mine. I believe that all Christians in this life are both perfect and imperfect in the same sense that any are, namely, in having some holy and some unholy affections, in rapid succession; and that the term perfect is, in the Scriptures, applied to all Christians, being synonymous with saints, or sanctified ones. But you believe that some who are in a justified state are perfect Christians, or sanctified ones, and others are not. I believe that no Christian lives a single day, and perhaps not a single hour, or a single minute, in the uninterrupted exercise of holy affection; but you believe, that those you call sanctified live for months and years without committing any sin, being, "at all times," in the uninterrupted exercise of perfect love. I believe that the moral law, which

the angels keep, and under which Adam was placed in the garden, and which was communicated in the ten commands at Mount Sinai, is the only standard of perfection, the only rule of right and wrong, and that every man is bound to keep it without interruption. But you believe that law is taken away, and that no man is now under obligation to keep it ;—but that a new law, which requires less, is substituted in its room. I believe that no affections or actions are holy, but such as come up to the moral law; and that all those affections and actions which fall short of the moral law, are sins. But you believe that your perfect ones, who live without committing any sin, are chargeable with very many "deviations" from your new and milder law, and many "transgressions" of it, which, were it not for the blood of atonement, would expose to eternal damnation," but which, nevertheless, are not sins. In these points, and others connected with them, we differ totally.

L. S. I perceive these differences plainly enough; and though I am not prepared to give my assent to all brother Feel-well's statements, I confess they are far less repugnant to my feelings than brother Thoughtful's, to which I can never assent, because they go to destroy all my hopes.

CHAPTER XX.

No-law. Now we are upon the subject of perfection, I should like to hear brother Feel-well's arguments to prove that some Christians attain such perfection in this life, as to live without committing any sin.

Feel-well. I prove it by this, that some are called perfect in the Scriptures. Noah was a just man, and perfect in his generations." Job "was perfect and upright." The Psalmist says, "Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright." The apostle says, We speak wisdom among them that are perfect." And, "Let us, therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded."

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Th. So also all Christians are called saints, or sanctified ones, holy, righteous, and the like; which are as strong terms as perfect and upright. Doubtless, these terms imply that those who are so called have some right affections, and perform some right actions. They have some conformity to the rule of right. But to infer from this that those right affec

tions continue for whole days and months, and even years, without any intermixture of wrong ones, and especially that these terms are applicable only to a part of the children of God, who have been the subjects of that second experience which you have described, is to take for granted the very thing in dispute, the very thing you ought to prove.

On the other

hand, it is plain that the Scriptures divide mankind into two great classes, to one or the other of which all belong. They call one class sinners, and the other saints; one righteous, and the other wicked; one holy, and the other unholy. But you seem to make three classes, one of sinners, another of saints, or sanctified ones, and another of those who are justified, but not sanctified, and who must therefore be neither saints nor sinners. I still wait for proof.

F. W. We are commanded to be perfect. "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Walk before me, and be thou perfect. Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." And my author says, "if the love of God fill all the heart, there can be no sin there."

Th. I acknowledge that we are commanded to be perfect; and so are all men. But you certainly will not say that no man is ever commanded to do any more than he actually does. This would be to say there is no sin in the world. But if you admit that any are commanded to do more than they actually do, then it still remains to be proved that there are any who actually do all that they are commanded.

F. W. Is it not written, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him?"

Th. Yes. But that declaration cuts off all from being Christians who do not keep his commandments; and so excludes your class of justified ones, who are not yet sanctified. And if it means that none are Christians who do not keep His commandments all the time, without any acts of disobedience intervening, it excludes all men whatever, according to your own statements. But if it only means, as I suppose it does, that none are Christians who do not perform some acts of holy obedience from day to day, so that they do habitually, though not uninterruptedly, walk in his statutes, then it avails nothing towards a proof that any are so perfect as to live from day to day without committing any sin. There appears no proof of

that yet.

F. W. There are many promises to that effect. The Psalmist says, "He shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities." By

the Prophet Ezekiel, it is said, "From all your filthiness will I cleanse you. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses. It was for this purpose that the Prince Immanuel laid down his life, "that he might redeem us from all iniquity." He "loved the Church, and gave himself for it, that he might present it to himself a glorious Church, not having spot or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

Th. These promises will all be fulfilled in due time. But, in applying them to your purpose, you take several things for granted, which you are bound to prove. You should prove that they have respect to your particular class of sanctified ones, and not equally to all Christians. You should prove that they not only promise a cleansing from past iniquities, but a security against falling into any more; which security you do not believe any to have in this life. And should prove that they are completely fulfilled in some individuals some time before death, so that they live from day to day without committing any more sin; which is the very thing in dispute.

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F. W. There is a declaration to that effect, which is in the present tense. "If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." It now cleanseth us, and it cleanseth us from all sin too. And it is added also, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.'

Th. I believe too, that "if we walk in the light, as he is in the light," if we repent of our sins, and turn from them with the whole heart, if we confess our sins, and forsake them, we do obtain forgiveness of all that are past, through the blood of Christ. But, what then? Where is the promise that we shall not fall into new sins, within an hour, or within a less space of time, after our old sins are repented of, and forgiven? Where is the proof that any continue for days and months without committing any new sins? I see none.

F. W. It appears from the thanksgiving of Zacharias: "He hath raised up an horn of salvation for us,-that we, being delivered out of the hand of our enemies, might serve him without fear, in holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life."

Th. If this proves any thing to your purpose, it proves too much; namely, that those who are once delivered from the bondage of sin and Satan, shall never sin any more, all the days of their life; which you do not believe any more than I. They might," indeed, and they ought to continue sinless all the days of their life; but they do not. And if this were a