in the flesh, have been converted. the fact as we all see and know. difficulty?

But this is cóntrary to How do you get over this

L. S. I have no disposition to attempt the removal of your difficulties. If you are disposed to cavil, and quarrel, and cavil, till you bewilder yourself, it is at your own risk you do it. "The better way, and the only one, in which I think your difficulties can be removed, is, for you to believe, without difficulties, what God has declared and promised. If you ask, on what evidence you are to rest this belief, I answer, on the divine veracity. If you cannot rest satisfied with this evidence, there is none which can be given you that will remove your difficulties." So said my old teacher on this subject, to one who attempted to press him with difficulties; and so say I.

Th. This seems to me to be the language of one who feels pressed with arguments which he knows not how to answer. I have endeavored to make my inquiries with a teachable spirit, and to look at arguments candidly. But if I had been perverse, and such an opposer of the truth as you sometimes seem inclined to call me, it yet belongs to those who know the truth, "in meekness to instruct those that oppose themselves, if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth." I think you in an error on this subject, of the most dangerous kind, and I wish to convince you of it.

L. S. I wish to know the truth, that I may secure the benefits of that knowledge. Proceed.

Th. I think it is a consequence of your theory, that all the prayer which has not attained the very thing asked for, and at the very time specified, must have been deficient in faith, and unacceptable. Do you admit that?

L. S. Yes; that is a necessary consequence of the principles we admit. We consider all prayer which does not obtain the very thing asked for, not only as vain, but a mockery of the Most High God.

Th. So some of the chief advocates of the theroy have avowed One says: "All the prayers that were ever made without being answered, were without true faith." Paul prayed that the thorn in his flesh might be removed; but it was not removed; and David prayed for the life of his child, but it died; and so he concluded these prayers were wrong.

L. S. And so should I. Can there be any doubt of it?

Th. With respect to the prayer of Paul, I think there are indications of its being an acceptable prayer, and one that was heard and answered; not indeed by bestowing the very thing asked for, but something better in its stead. I know such an idea has been ridiculed by new-measure men, who ought to

have known that ridicule is not argument. Look at the connection, and see what Paul says about it, and see if there is not evidence that the prayer was acceptable. "For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee; for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. The thorn in the flesh was not removed; but he had grace given to support him under it, so that he bore it most gladly. This is one instance. Another is his prayer for the conversion of his brethren after the flesh: "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they may be saved." There is no evidence of this being a wicked prayer, but much evidence of its being remarkably disinterested. Yet the whole chapter shows that they were not generally saved. Moses prayed to be allowed to enter the promised land; but he was not permitted. The refusal, however, is not put upon the ground that his prayer was wrong, but his previous conduct in relation to the waters of Meribah. Moses said: "I pray thee, let me go over and see the good land that is beyond Jordan, that goodly mountain, and Lebanon. But the Lord was wroth with me for your sakes, and would not hear me; and the Lord said unto me, let it suffice thee, speak no more unto me of this matter. Get thee up into the top of Pisgah, and lift up thine eyes westward, and northward, and southward, and eastward, and behold it with thine eyes; for thou shalt not go over this Jordan." Something else was given him, different from what he asked. It was to see the land which he asked to enter. The Lord Jesus prayed that the cup might pass from him, which I think was not granted. "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." This language does not accord with your theory of the prayer of faith. And when any of us imitate it in our prayers, you condemn us for praying wrong, and say it proves us destitute of faith. I know that some of your friends have contended that the request of Christ was granted. But why then does its language seem to look towards a denial? "He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying: O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done." That language accords with my views of the manner in which prayer should be made, but not with yours. There is a strong implication that he expected his request could not be granted, and the expression of an acquiescence in the denial. And that I think is right, and the language of true faith in God's superior wisdom and goodness. But your system requires you to condemn it, and say it was the want of faith.

We have another example of his mode of praying which is safe to follow: "Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. But for this cause came I unto this hour. Father, glorify thy name." His own deliverance

from suffering seems to be the primary object of his prayer; but he does not stop there; he looks forward to an object of more importance, the glory of God, and there lets his desires terminate, and for that cheerfully gives up the less good.

L. S. But does not the apostle convey the idea that he received the very thing he asked for? He says: 66 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications, with strong crying and tears, unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared."

Th. The marginal reading is, "and was heard for his piety." The word rendered feared, does not appear to be the word commonly used to signify dread or terror, but godly fear. I think he was heard, and answered, not in obtaining the thing asked for, which, from the language of the apostle, I should think was, deliverance from death; but he obtained that which was more in accordance with the design of his coming into the world. Luke says, he prayed, saying, "Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him." The prayer seems to imply that he did not expect the cup to pass from him; and that his prayer was answered in giving him divine support under it. You cannot maintain the position, then, that all prayer which does not obtain the very thing asked for, is unbelieving prayer, and a mockery of the Most High God.

And. One thought more. You want to have others think as you do on this subject; and you have no great confidence in reasoning and argument, as the means to accomplish it. Suppose you just try the influence of your prayer of faith upon them. This will be easy for you to do; and if your theory is right, it must be effectual. They will be brought over to your views. Let you three, who believe it, try it upon us two, who do not believe it. Pray us into the belief of it, and then we can join you in praying others into it; and so on. This will be a short and easy method of testing your theory, and of conducting revivals, and missionary operations. So great an expense of treasure and of human life need not be employed upon the heathen world, if this theory is true. For you apply to yourselves the promise, "If two of you shall agree on earth, as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven." Just do it, and the work will be accomplished.

L. S. I see that you are determined to persevere in your unbelief.

Th. Unbelief, indeed! You ask us to believe things to be true, for which you give us no evidence whatever. What you call the prayer of faith, is, in truth, the prayer of presumption. You require me to pray for the conversion of a particular sinner, believing that he will be converted; and you tell me that such a belief is essential to an acceptable prayer. But when I ask for evidence that the thing you require me to believe is true, I cannot obtain any. At one time you seem to rely upon immediate suggestions from the Holy Spirit. But you appear not quite willing to claim the inspiration of the apostles. And then, you feel that if this is the ground of faith, those cannot be required to believe who have no such revelations. At another time you seem to rely upon the general promises to hear and answer prayer. But these do not meet the case. For they are promises to hear and answer right prayer. They warrant me to believe, that if I pray right, I shall be heard and answered, in the thing I ask, or in something better. But I must pray right, and know that I pray right, before I can have any ground to expect an answer. Consequently, if I must begin with believing that the thing I ask will be granted, that belief is without any ground, and is nothing but presumption. This is your error. You require us to begin with believing without evidence. And all true confidence in God, and every indication of a true child-like temper, you condemn as an indication of unbelief.

CHAPTER XLV.

Ardent. The hasty acknowledgment of converts has been brought into view in our discussion of the prayer of faith. And it may be that the practice is even more prevalent than that doctrine. If any one can be persuaded to acknowledge the slightest degree of hope, I believe the new-measure men uniformly think that hope ought to be encouraged, and the subject of it counted as a convert. And if the prayer of faith which they teach is true, I suppose there is no need of scrutiny in the case. For if any one has been prayed for, with such prayer as insures his conversion, and he indulges a hope that he is converted, there can be no need of examination. It mus

be a good hope, and he must be a true convert; for the faith dictated by the Holy Ghost cannot be disappointed.

Love-self. You are right. The idea of treating a case of hopeful conversion with great caution, and teaching the subject of it to be doubtful about its genuineness, and treating him as if it was quite as likely he is deceived as not, I conclude is becoming obsolete. In this new era of revivals, there is no oc

casion for so much doubt and unbelief.

F. W. And if they have been prayed for in faith, we may be sure they are true converts. For such faith as ours cannot fail.

Th. There are some things in the Bible, however, which imply the danger of deception; and many cautions against being deceived. And as to the new theory of the prayer of faith being any guard against false conversions, I cannot easily think of any one thing besides which is so well adapted to multiply them; as I have told you before.

Ard. Will you state some of the sources of danger?

Th. The fact that we need a change of heart at all, shows that we are in danger. When we are converted, we are brought to experience something new. Its being something new implies that we cannot know it is genuine by comparing it with any thing we have already experienced, and finding it of the same nature. We must find it to be different from any thing we have experienced before. And here is room for deception, because many changes take place in us, which are occasioned by a change of circumstances. A circumstantial change may be mistaken for a radical change. The Israelites on the banks of the Red Sea, just delivered from Egyptian bondage, by the mighty power of God, were deeply affected, and sung his praise. But a journey of three days into the wilderness, and a scarcity of water, made them appear very different. They soon forgot his works, and murmured against him. When he fed them with manna from heaven, and brought water from the rock to supply their thirst, they were very ready to profess their love to him, and to say, "All that the Lord hath spoken we will do." But Moses had not been absent forty days before they made a calf and worshipped it. Their sons were very changeable too. When they passed the Jordan on dry ground, when the walls of Jericho fell down, when the sun stood still, and their enemies were destroyed by hail from heaven, these things made a great impression upon them, and they said to Joshua that they would serve the Lord. But Joshua had not been long dead before they fell away into idolatry. In the days of our Lord, when he fed the multitude in the wilderness, they were ready to take him by force, and make him a king; and