the

prayer book. That they have got into the churches again, and into the imaginations and mouths of so many professed Protestants, is a sign of a sad decline from the purity of the Reformation.

Lof. Reformation! 'Really I hate the Reformation and the reformers more and more.' "The Reformation was a limb badly set-it must be broken again in order to be righted." "I utterly reject and anathematize or curse the principle of Protestantism, as a heresy, with all its forms, sects, or demoninations." Ard. This implies that you think the Church of Rome to be the nearest right of any.

Lof. "I do believe, with Archbishop Laud, the Church of Rome to be a true church. Were she not a true church, it were hard for the Church of England; since from her the English bishops derive their apostolic succession."

Th. Does your system justify prayer for the dead?

Lof. Yes; my friend, the bishop before mentioned, has written several pages in defence of prayers for the dead.

Ard. And must we pray to the saints also?

Lof. Yes; the Oxford tract, No. 75, contains "selections from the Roman Breviary, prepared and recommended for the use of all true members of the Church of England. One selection is this: "And therefore I beseech thee, blessed Mary, ever virgin, the blessed Michael archangel, the blessed John Baptist, the holy apostles Peter and Paul, all saints, and thee my father, to pray the Lord our God for me."

Th. And do you claim for your ministry the power of working miracles, as the Roman pontiff does for his ?

Lof. Certainly. "In the sacraments we have in some special sense the present power of God with us, and the Episcopal and priestly succession have in them something divine, as channels, which convey, as it were, his presence to us. The water of baptism cleanses from sin, and eating the consecrated bread is eating Christ's body. This power is constantly conveyed through the hands of commissioned persons, authorized according to the forms of the church-therefore the sacraments are a continued miracle, and their dispensation by episcopally ordained ministers, is equal to the working of miracles. And if baptism be the cleansing and quickening of a dead soul, to say nothing of the eucharist, they do work miracles.

CHAPTER LIX.

Thoughtful. You speak of the succession, as if you have no doubt of your having it, in an unbroken line, from the apostles. Lofty. Doubt? No. How can we have, when we know that our bishops were ordained by the bishops of the Church of Rome?

Th. I should be very unwilling to acknowledge that my minister derived his authority to preach and administer the sacraments from the Roman pontiff, whom I regard as the man of sin. But, since you rely upon that succession, will you do us the favor to show us the genealogy, in an unbroken line, to the apostles?

Lof. I cannot do-that; for many records have perished from time to time, being destroyed by fires and other means; and there have been periods when great confusion existed in the nominal church.

Th. Yes. And sometimes there were two popes, and sometimes three. And who can tell now "which was which," as your friend Bishop D. asks? Now, "nothing is plainer, than that the body which has power to confer the ministerial office, has power to take it away. Did Rome clothe the bishops of England with authority? She has taken away that authority." When they broke with Rome, Rome broke with them, and revoked all the authority she had ever given them. According to your principles, then, here is a break in your succession, which can never be got over. An English Episcopal writer says: "It is impossible to prove the personal succession of modern bishops, in an unbroken, Episcopal line, from the apostles, or men of the apostolic age. Whatever may become of the apostolic succession as a theory, or an institute, it is impossible, at all events, to prove the fact of succession; or to trace it down the stream of time." At any rate, the Presbyterian succession is as good as yours. We can trace it to John Knox, and to John Calvin, and they can trace theirs to Rome. But we do not regard this matter of succession as of any consequence. And we think the fact that the providence of God has so broken it in pieces, is sufficient to prove that it is not necessary to rely upon it. If a church, maintaining the truth in its confession and practice, chooses a man for their pastor, who preaches and practises the same truth, and that man is

set apart by the laying on of the hands of the presbytery, that is, by those who are the acknowledged ministers of Christ in the vicinity, that is enough. His election by the church is the essential thing; his being set apart by presbyterial ordination is the formal acknowledgment of his right.

Lof. What a jargon is your worship, when compared with ours, under the influence of our primitive and apostolical liturgy. You have no prescribed forms of prayer, but every minister prays what comes into his own mind.

Th. I acknowledge that in these days there have been sad examples of the abuse of extemporary prayers. Yet, I should be very unwilling to be confined to the use of forms, which would tire by their perpetual sameness.

Lof. I think them much better adapted to promote devotional feeling, than the crude, extemporaneous effusions of ignorance and fanaticism.

Th. There is no need that extemporaneous prayers should be deficient in sober thought and devotional feeling. It ought to be a part of ministerial education, to learn what is proper in prayer, and adapted to the various circumstances of time, place, and people. When that is properly learned, and regard is had to all these things, in the exercise of Christian prudence and sobriety, I think the extemporary prayer is incomparably superior to any form which could have been previously prepared, and especially to a form imposed upon a whole diocese at once, however different the circumstances of the congregations might be.

Lof. The Lord's Prayer is in the Bible; and the use of a liturgy is very ancient.

Th. Our Lord said: "After this manner, therefore, pray ye." This indicates that it was not intended for a form, to be copied exactly, but as a general outline to guide us. If it was intended for a form, why is it not recorded in the same words, in the different gospels? This seems to have been the view which Tertullian took of it, "that we may add thereunto, and offer up prayers unto God, according to the variety of our circumstances and condition." Lord King says: "Those other prayers, which made up a great part of divine service, were not instituted and imposed forms, but the words and expressions of them were left to the prudence, choice, and judgment of any particular bishop or minister." The best writers date the adoption of liturgies after the third century, and ascribe them to the necessities of the clergy at that period. And it would be, no doubt, a great improvement, now, in the worship of families, social circles, and churches, if persons not well qualified to express themselves with propriety in prayer, without

previous thought, or assistance, should furnish themselves with a few written prayers, to be used, for a time, to assist them in this important service.

Lof. You seem to be almost ready to concede our superiority in this respect.

Th. Not at all. I cannot approve of being confined to a form on all occasions. If my children want any thing of me, I like to have them come, with a child-like temper, and tell me, each in his own way, what he wants, and leave it to my judg ment whether to give it or not. And if any one needs instruc tion, as to the manner of expressing his wants, I am willing to instruct him. But I should never think of teaching them to use the same words, whatever their wants might be.

Lof. Those who do not use a liturgy are apt to overlook the importance of prayer, and consider it as a mere introduction to the preaching; whereas prayer is the most important part of the public service.

Th. And those who do use a liturgy are apt to overlook the importance of preaching, and consider it as a mere appendage to prayer; whereas preaching, and not prayer, is certainly made most prominent among the means of promoting the salvation of souls.

Lof. "We would not be thought entirely to deprecate preaching as a mode of doing good; it may be necessary in a weak and languishing state; but it is the characteristic of that system which is opposed to the doctrines of the church; and we fear the undue exaltation of an instrument which Scripture, to say the least, has never much recommended." Prayer and the sacraments are the great means of salvation.

Th. It does not appear so from the Bible. Paul says: "Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the Gospel." "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God." "It pleased God, by the foolishness of preaching, to save them that believe." He does not ascribe it to the efficacy of prayer, but of preaching, that men are saved. "In Iconium, they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude, both of the Jews, and also of the Greeks, believed." They so spake, not so prayed. What are

Paul's directions to Timothy, in his final charge? "Preach the word; be instant in season, and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all long-suffering and doctrine. For the time will come, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all

things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.' "All this relates to preaching, and inculcates its high importance; but not one word about praying and administering the sacraments, as if they were the most important things.

Lof. These passages chiefly apply to the labors necessary to convert Jews and heathens to the Gospel. But now, in a Christian land, where nearly all have been already regenerated by baptism," the church would be entirely out of her place, in laboring to convert people," when they are converted already.

Th. That we do not admit. They are not converted, in the Scripture sense of the word, till they are renewed in the temper of their minds after the image of God. If any man have not the spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

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Lof. I observe that you have the common notion of appealing to Scripture, on every subject. But the Scripture is often obscure, and needs the aid of tradition to explain it. We must go to the church first, and then to the Bible. The church will tell us what the Bible means. My friend, Bishop D. says: "The true Catholic pastor, who receives the word of God with the transmitted witness of the church, who guides himself by the Holy Scriptures, not as he understands them, but as Catholic antiquity has revealed, and Catholic consent has kept their meaning, will be chastised and schooled into that child-like spirit which God will bless." "The church everywhere appeals to holy Scripture, and ancient authors."

Th. But Paul says: "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." There is no reference here to any additions to the Bible by human tradition. He also says: Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men." And our Lord himself sharply reproves the Jews for laying aside the commandment of God that they may hold the tradition of men.

Lof. These were the traditions of Jews and heathens. We refer to the traditions of the church. "The Scriptures are not, according to the principles of the church, the rule of faith. The doctrine or message of the Gospel is but indirectly presented in the Scriptures, and in an obscure and concealed manner." "Catholic tradition is a divine informer in religious things; it is the unwritten word. These two things, the Bible and the Catholic traditions, form together a united rule of faith. Catholic tradition is a divine source of knowledge in all things relating to faith." Tradition is infallible; the unwrit